Show Notes
Picking the right theme for your Shopify store can literally make or break your business.
Seriously, the conversion rate on your website is the most important metric you need to work in your favor.
In this week’s episode we get to talk with Joseph who runs the podcast for Debutify, a powerful Shopify theme that allows customers to use their built-in system and get rid of all the app headache.
What you’re going to learn
- Where the future of ecommerce is headed
- How Debutify crushes the theme competition with all of their amazing features
- What strategies successful stores have put in place to stand out from the competition
Check out our Ecomm Accelerator Process free training, a proven system to help frustrated store owners become the impactful store owner and generate consistent sales in their store. Watch the training now for free: https://www.optimizedstoreowner.com/ecomm-training
Connect with us
Transcript
Christian [00:00:00] On today's podcast episode, we are interviewing Joseph from the Debutify. Debutify is one of the best, highest converting free Shopify theme out there and Joseph is also the host of ecom-onics. I think I'm saying not right, ecom-onics. It's like a weird little name in there. But he has a podcast where he interviews just absolute winners in the space of drop shipping and e-commerce. So definitely check that out. And we're going to be talking about the podcast. We get to be talking about the Debutify and we're going to be talking about social media and marketing and how everything works as one. Check it out.
Narrator [00:00:38] This is the marketing natives providing actionable ways to grow, improve and succeed in your business. A nd now your host, Christian and Aaron.
Aaron [00:00:55] All right, Joseph, thanks so much for joining us on another episode of the marketing natives, this is going to be a ton of fun and you have a unique role, a unique position, and really like a unique way of of looking at businesses specifically for e-commerce. So if you could tell us a little bit about your role and what you do and a little bit more about yourself.
Joseph [00:01:17] Sure thing. So I'll start with my role and what I do, which is part and parcel as to why I'm here today and why I got to meet you guys is I'm the host of Ecom Onics, that is. And I see s if Google tells you how it should be spelled to tell them, no, not this time. Google and I am the OK, so I'm the host of the of the program and I'm also the multimedia manager for for the Debutify Company, which means that I'm also part of the creative process for the YouTube content, which my colleague kind of works on right now. We're actually working on webinars. So I, I'm managing that project as well. And just as I also I think as part of this I should tell people what Debutify is just to help paint a clear picture. So very simply, to beautify is a Shopify template. It's designed by well, I mean, there is a long design process to it, but in its current form, it has been under the guidance of Ricky Hayes, who is well known in the e-commerce space, as a successful and popular dropshiper. And what we wanted to do with ecom onics is be able, with a lot of the content that a lot of companies may be able to provide value for other people. But also to and this is the analogy that I love using where I like to look at ecom onics has a I almost got myself that time as a ship that heads off into the e-commerce galaxy and or the e-commerce universe and makes contact with other planets or ships or stations or wherever, whatever metaphor you guys want to choose. Gilfry, it's it's up to you on that one. And building relationships, business relationships, partnerships. We've had some people who have been very enthusiastic and then they come to the podcast and then either they become an affiliate or they become one of the integrations, say like I got to talk to somebody a couple of weeks ago about that. So for me personally, it's it's just been insane. It is an absolutely insane since I joined the company in July of this year, because I've been doing media for about ten years. And most of the media content that I worked on has been local here in the Toronto scene. And I at the at the apex of Lockdown's, where most people are not much to do. And so I think that's a really good time to find a job, because that's not my logic. System works and. Since then, we're just entering my 30s, this has probably been the most amount of learning that I've done in my entire life and it's amazing to be able to learn is really part of my job and the beauty of the show, and this is one of the things that I recommend people is to go as chronologically as they have the patience for, because what they'll see is as time goes on, their understanding can mirror my understanding, because I while I I'm good at media, I'm completely green to the e-commerce space. So by now we've gone to like episode 80 somewhere around there. And the questions that I'm asking have evolved. I'm not as able to clarify the terminology so much like realize, OK, I got that went down, I got it. And and I can continue to at some point we'll see like give it a year, give it a two years. And I want to be able to prove that the philosophy that anybody can do this, because from what I've seen, anybody can I've seen people chemistry, people from engineering, people from the military, really anybody in shape or form could be incentivized to get into e-commerce and and reshape their life in a way that they see fit.
Christian [00:04:59] Very interesting. So you're saying that you didn't necessarily start with the ecom side of things, you were more of the media creator and through this journey, you've learned about everything that has to do with the ecom. Right, and businesses?
Joseph [00:05:13] Yeah, I would say that e-commerce is when we hear the term, I think the most gimmicky view of it tends to be the one that rises to the surface first. But really, it's far more integrated into our society, especially I would give it like the last 20 years. So the previous jobs that I worked contractually, I'm not allowed to say anything negative about it so far, but I don't have too much negative to say anyways. But the last sales job that I worked was basically technically e-commerce. I was a sales person and I would receive phone calls all over the world. I would log on to Amazon Connect and I would get phone calls and people in Germany, in the UK, Australia, Canada, the United States and all of these people wanted to order a luxury watches. So it was interesting because once I had learned about drop shipping, I had realized, oh, wait a minute, I have been doing this. I mean, I wasn't running the company or anything like that, but I was participating in a business model very similar to drop shipping. The only difference, I guess, would be it might be a little it might have been a little bit closer to arbitrage because we had multiple sources. And so our our website would list what were available based off what the sources would tell us were available, and then we would source the orders from there. So it wasn't like we had like one direct supplier. We weren't getting it directly from the luxury watch companies. We were getting it from the authorized dealers. And here's the beauty of it. The authorized dealers, many of which it being the Washington distri, were from the old school mentality and. It didn't really occur to them to even have a website, let alone participate in e-commerce as it is now. And so what the company was doing is they would reach out to these authorized dealers and explain what's going on and say, look, some of these watches, you're having a hard time moving, but we have a global market at our disposal. If you're willing to sorceror us, then we can get that product moving, whereas otherwise it would have just been sitting collecting dust. So the point there is that I think most people have participated in e-commerce in some way. And I think if you just take the broad look at it, it is all just commerce at this point. I mean, at what point are we going to understand that we no longer need to separate the Internet side from, you know, the mortal side? It's all pretty much the same now.
Aaron [00:07:41] Absolutely. So I think you can probably shine a light on a lot of things here, and I'll
Joseph [00:07:46] do my best.
Aaron [00:07:47] OK. We're setting the stage pretty high here or the bar, rather. So what I would think what I would be interested in is, is what there's so many different Shopify themes. Right. So what's the difference between you guys have been around? You guys obviously have a team. What makes it debutify different? Like, what have you guys figured out from using your theme compared to others? I think at the end of the day, people wanted to make sure that it looks good and it has a good conversion rate. But what kind of sets you apart? What are you guys seeing in in the industry as far as Shopify themes right now?
Joseph [00:08:19] Sure thing is a great question. Some of it is value. There are a number of add ons right now. We have forty forty one add ons available and a lot of these add ons will parallel an app that somebody else might have to install separately, which increases management, could make things a little bit messier on the backend, but also could increase prices too. So while a lot of them are free, oftentimes in order to scale, what you end up happening is what ends up happening is a number of those apps will then have to scale in terms of are you using the free plan? Do you have to use the master plan? You have to use a grand master deacon plan. Well, now all of those apps have increased in price as well. So over time, instead, if you just upgrade to one of the more premium plans on the debutify, you actually save exponentially the more you scale. So that's part of the value. Then you have the community, too. We have our Facebook group. I've got a lot of a lot of us have our Facebook groups. We advocate your contribution in that sense as well. So we our strategy is to have a mixture of B2C community, but also a strong B2B community. So a lot of the people who have succeeded through e-commerce have a lot of opportunities thanks to their relationship with the debutify. Maybe they'll set up their own agency and they'll want to actually contribute to the integration side of it. Maybe they'll want to join the dropship in council, which is this collection of people who've reached like the seven figure, eight figure range and are having a hard time finding other like minded people to have that similar experience with. So you can you can apply for that. There's product research, so are more premium side of it will actually start sourcing potential winning products for you so we can help save time in that regard.
Aaron [00:10:17] Very cool one, I didn't I wasn't really thinking about that, the community side of things, but that's definitely something that would be beneficial for like like you said to be to see. But also, I think it is a lead generator for somebody like an agency like us just to add value into joining that community and is free to join that group. Or is it like you have to basically be part of the debutify company or like purchase the theme first and then you join the group or what's the how do you access the group? How do you get that knowledge from people you're talking about?
Joseph [00:10:51] I think that's a good question. I would say that if I think if I wanted to join the Facebook group right now, I probably could. But the entry level is up. You just have the even the even the free theme would be enough to warrant entering into the Facebook community. So we're pretty open about it. And then also we also have our YouTube site as well. And so a lot of people are engaged on the YouTube side because they'll comment on the video and then they'll engage in a dialog there. We also are doing lives now, too, so we can have in discussions in real time with Kondrat, who's doing the live presentation, something that I'll be joining in as well as time unfolds.
Christian [00:11:29] You mentioned drop shipping a couple of times. Would you say that these are the I mean, not these the beautified theme is for dropship exclusively, or will this theme work for other customers?
Joseph [00:11:46] I mean, luckily, because as a Shopify template, you can go different routes if you want to. It was designed with dropship in mind because the the the I guess the thesis of dropship being is that it is the lowest cost. Entry level method for people to start doing their own e-commerce business, that's also scalable, too, not to dissuade anybody who makes, I guess, more boutique or small batch product. It could be for them if they have if they choose to scale. Somebody that I had spoken to just last week, her name is Freya James or I will be out in a couple of months. But I'll tell you her story real quick, because I think this is a good example of how small batch can scale now. I don't she's not using a shop R thing yet. But just to give you guys an example of this particular strategy before we get back to drop shipping is that there was demand because her audience were following her on YouTube and she had to make a shae buttercream that was not only good for her, but good for her infant daughter. And she developed it herself. And then the the audience said, can we have that, too? And so demand just started increasing naturally. So there is a way for small batch to end up scaling, and it could certainly work out for them, too. But yes, it is it was made for dropship being mine, because that's where the one who handles the marketing side of it, that's where he came from. And the reason why he is as prominent as it is, is because dropship was there for him to do that. I myself am participating in dropship now, too. I've got I've got my own store going up. I'm learning just how many things can be obstruction, how many obstructions there can be. So there's definitely a lot that can go awry. But it takes the weight off my shoulders that I don't have hundreds of them sitting in my apartment waiting to ship. I haven't put the money down on that yet.
Christian [00:13:44] Quick question on the would you are you the majority of employees at the debutify have their own Ecom businesses dropship?
Joseph [00:13:53] You know, I haven't asked, so I don't have a survey results of this. And I think the pressure changes from person to person. I think myself and my YouTube counterpart, I think the pressure on us is a lot more to do this because, I mean, really, what excuse do I have not to like I get to talk to people every week who are sharing actionable tips on how to make it work. I get the theme. I get that the company. So I do get that. And and also, I mean, there is money to be made. So I do like making money. So that definitely factors into the motivation. And just going back to the point that I made earlier is that. I can't not like I have to I have to prove that this is on this hasn't been for not that this is a viable method that anybody can do. Now, do I expect my first store to hit seven figures? Hmm. I don't know about that one. That might be a little bit of a stretch, but and even if it doesn't take off, that's OK. It's still a great deal of learning for for me personally. So I don't know. Is our do our customer service people run their store? Do our, our developers running the stores? I haven't asked. So, you know, I will be sharing this this podcast with them on our on our group chat. So if anybody from the company is doing their own story, let me know. I haven't figured that one out yet. I would say to that motivation does have a lot to do with, you know, how happy people are in their current state. You have entrepreneurship, which I know a lot of people who are drawn to it do so because what system or what structure they were a part of, it wasn't working for them or actually actively rejects them, which is something that I take pride in. I've tried to be part of a part of numerous systems and each time they they boot me out the door. I believe I had a hat and all that. I'm even if you if you look in Ricky's story, he was he was motivated for that same things. He wanted to create a company more of what he wanted to work for, too. So I I think a lot of people are happy with the company. And and entrepreneurship entails a lot more risk. You know, even even with dropship being a factor, it's still a lot more risk. There's a lot more uncertainty involved and there's no guarantee of a paycheck coming in. So I can totally understand why not everybody feels that's the right call for them.
Aaron [00:16:20] So you've done at this point, like you said, almost 80 episodes recorded, not necessarily released, but just curious. So is there are there any overarching things that did align the people that you're listening or that you've talked to? So the ones who are, quote unquote successful are the people you have on the guests. They've obviously had some level of success. But is there anything that's that's specifically like, OK, they all have these things in common or they have these things that they've figured out, not necessarily just with a theme, but just overall in general or there's some commonalities between the two, between everybody that you've come across.
Joseph [00:16:57] That's a great question. Some of that will depend on whether or not I'm talking to I remember my conversation with you. It was partially with you, but it was also on behalf of your agency. So I do notice some through lines when I'm talking to agencies. And one of my main questions with agencies is when you get to collect data from multiple sources, what do you learn in aggregate that say, like an in-house person who's doing the same work couldn't learn because they're not studying or not, they're not learning from other ones. But with that, with individuals, the the single most fundamental through is and it's a little corny, but I mean, it's freedom, it's the ability to be our own bosses and choose who whom to serve and how to serve. And by that I mean our customers and what products we want to sell to them. It's the ability to and also the the capacity to view the world more as a as a means to accomplish my goals rather than a number of obstacles. And I'm just trying to get as far as I can at the mercy of the world. So everybody that I've talked to, they they want their freedom. They want time to be with their family. They want to travel. They want to serve people in the way they see fit. Most, if not all of them are just making content for free because they're so grateful for what e-commerce did for them that they want to give other people that opportunity. And even me, I, I I'm I'm an employee of the company, but even so, just being in the e-commerce space has given me a lot more freedom than being in even what was before, which was partially retail, partially e-commerce. And I was more free there versus even going to like a full on retail store, which I have also done in the past, where I was actually very limited and not just limited, by the way, about how many hours I would have to work there, but also commuting where is I would have to commute, you know, an hour there and then an hour to get home. And so if I was working for hours or six hours, however many Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, then I actually would lose another 10, 12 hours, just not being paid, in fact, costing me money to go there. So that was very limiting on my freedom. So, yeah, freedom is definitely the thing above all else, there might be like a runner up if it comes to me, I'll let you know, but it's definitely freedom.
Aaron [00:19:28] So that's that's I was going to say the driving factor for what I think makes them successful, that's what's pushing them forward to make that possible. What what kind of products do you see this working with? Like, you know, obviously, I think yours is done. When we talked, it was the desk. Right. So for the video, it's like underneath the desk that makes something like what we have, like an actual door. But what kind of products are people using or are they starting? Are they doing it more so for problems that they have? Or is it just something they know about? Or how exactly are they picking products to?
Joseph [00:20:04] Yeah, and one of the things about scaling upwards is, is to try to not come so much from the view of being a fellow consumer, but you do have to be a marketer. And I think the key thing of being a marketer is being a thought leader and not only looking for the solution to the problem, but looking for the problem as well. Like, for instance, with the with the the the self and draws is that people didn't really like people to really think about that because we just know this is our desk as everything on it. And so there is the immediate solution. And then there's the underlying philosophy behind it, which is how do we rethink the space around us? You know what? If we can find the things that we can stick to our walls, stick to our ceilings. Now, I have not only marketed a product, but I've also engaged people intellectually in a way that they haven't considered before, which, by the way, this is mainly hypothetical. My, my my story is rather slow going. I must admit, I am a bit of a slow learner, but that's OK. Now, as for a lot of the people that I've talked to, there are some issues that are proven effective. Pets' is a fantastic niche. Everybody wants to take good care of. Their pets are a highly emotional niche and. We we just kind of maybe maybe dogs or cats are as discerning as human beings, I guess it does depend on the bridge to some extent, but solving problems for pets is the same thing is like are you concerned about maybe your pet does your pet like to go out at night? Maybe there's a way to put like a little bit of a spark, a sparkling kitchen on there just so that they have a little bit more visibility. That's just me kind of like pulling an item out of out of thin air. So pets are big babies is another one. You'll notice that emotionality is a through line here. Parents are very enthusiastic and are highly emotionally connected to their child. So they want to do everything that they can to. Raise your child not only safe, but also happy, whether that's a toy or one one product I remember seeing quite a while ago during my onboarding. Was this a cereal bowl that had a gyroscopic handle to it so that no matter how the baby was moving the bowl around, it would always stay even thus reducing but not preventing the spilling jewelry is pretty good to the margins on jewelry were quite good. The issue is packaging and preference and it's a very different thing to wear the jewelry and still be satisfied with it so it can work. But there are a can be tricky. Some of it is also just observing what's going on in the world, I'm not the first person to talk about the coronavirus even today and to and so in the last year, how have the trends changed? There's a lot more DIY. There's a lot more people trying to do things on their own. So you can see some increase in, say, like home gyms, for instance, more people working out at home than average.
Aaron [00:23:14] I was curious on the page, so you mentioned the marketing side, right, so everybody for drop shipping to work, it doesn't really matters about the industry. You mentioned that a little bit. Right? So that's that's part of it. But everybody has to be good at the marketing side. What have you what do you guys suggest? What did how did Ricky kind of do his job? Shipping was through Facebook ads, Instagram. And what what are people using whenever you're talking to them? Like, how are they driving sales through marketing?
Joseph [00:23:42] Sure. So Facebook ads has been I would say the the number one traffic source of Google ads is good, too. And then you could also do a lot of organic marketing, say, on social media or like Instagram, where if somebody has a brand, let's just say they're in the pet niche and they look for other influencers within like a certain scalable range. You don't want to go too high because it's going to be kind of hard to even get their attention and they might have more demand. But it's an individual thing, so I'll digress on that, so go with Facebook. What you'll notice about consumer behavior is that if I'm looking for something on Google, my intent is already set. I do know what I'm looking for. So the the advertising isn't trying to hook me quite as much as we're about just being there or being presentable. And you look at Amazon, for instance, Amazon is even more set because not only am I intent on searching for it, I'm intent on paying for it. So there's the competition is more refined there. Their Facebook is all discovery. People go on to Facebook. And while one could search through Facebook, for the most part, people are on Facebook and they're scrolling and we're just looking for. I don't know our quote over daily dopamine hits, and it could be any number of things, it could be news posts, it could be updates from groups. Somebody shares a video. Content from other websites as well. And what you do and what Ricky Dunwoody's the master of is understanding how to get people's attention through those ads. And there was a specific formula to advertising. I'm not saying that there aren't other formulas, but there was a specific one that's relevant here that's been thought very carefully about how it's effective on Facebook, which is you have about two, maybe three seconds to hook somebody. So what you're looking for is a scroll stop or something that gets people's attention. And then. Old, the old bad way, no good way. Ask them questions about how they would like to see things changed. And then you offer them that change and then you end on a call to action. And I'm part of it is, by the way, you're as much as it would be great to convert them into a sale right away. What's more important is warming the audience to your brand. And then once they have and I know I have to listen to everyone in every episode of you guys, I listen to a couple of just to kind of like get a feel for how you guys do the content. I'm certain this has been talked about to some extent is once the customer has joined by my website and there they become an asset, we get we get the email and you do re-marketing. And as good as it might seem that somebody converts into a sale right away, what we would rather see is actually a more of a quantity of potential customers down the line. So they might need some more warming before they're ready to convert. But the priority is to get as many people onto the website as possible and they will over time convert into sales. So it's a game of patience. A lot of the time is don't worry so much about getting them to spend the money right away. Warn them and so that way, rather than then kind of reluctantly spending and ending up with buyer's remorse or leading to too much into fear of missing out, it gets them to the point where they are ready and they're happy to buy and they're happy to support the company.
Christian [00:27:24] Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of what we do. That's very interesting that you know so much about this other field where I mean, debutify is a theme. Right. And I think it doesn't necessarily have to deal with that marketing side of things. But you do educate your clients on on the beautify Kurbanov. It just works on on Shopify, right?
Joseph [00:27:48] Yeah. For now, it's just a Shopify.
Christian [00:27:50] OK, and then I just got to say this because you mentioned it earlier, but it's absolutely genius to include all these add ons, which are features. And like you said earlier, they compete with actual apps. I don't think a lot of consumers necessarily think about that whenever they're choosing a theme instead of Shopify, that a lot of these teams don't have the necessary things that you need in order to to get that email address. You know, that simple email address that you're talking about, Shopify completely ignores that. The aspect of it, I believe some things may have like a little pop up and that's it. And it's a very basic, simple pop up and that's it. And that's about the extent of what Shopify gives you versus the debutify that you guys have just kind of completely looked at. I feel like all the top players as far as apps. Right. And seen, OK, how can we do this but actually integrate it into our theme. Right. Have it as an add on one. It's a lot better than having all these different sources where your website is pulling from, you know, different sort of different servers, different codes. So it makes your website a lot faster to have all this stuff integrated with the theme. So absolutely Kudo's. And I think that should be like one of those top selling point. And I'm sure it is a top selling point. But I don't think on the on the consumer and I don't think they realize, you know, how much, you know, energy and time and effort they're saving by having some sort of a complete solution, almost. Right. To all the marketing needs that they will need from the website.
Joseph [00:29:20] Yeah, that's a great point, so I'll say a couple of things. One thing I'm going to say, in complete fairness and complete transparency, it is possible that somebody might have specific requirements for, say, the newsletter pop up and they may end up wanting to install an app specific to their needs. So that's cool. But that's OK. There's another thirty nine other add ons that you're welcome to use to your to your discretion. So some of it I think also has to do with trust. So I didn't just notice this with the debutify, I noticed this with other agencies, especially ones that focus on the third party logistics, like you drop it what you talked to early on and yacify , which I which endeared me to their service, too. So I'm actually using them as my therapy is. And there's a few steps here, so one is to put the seller or the marketer at ease and know that I am working with people who want me to win, and they're continuing to do research and development to understand how to improve these stores. And like you say, minimize low time so that we're saving consumer time in aggregate. And second is just to be able to try these add ons out and even just discover them for the first time for myself, trusting that will they wouldn't add this unless this was something useful. So I'm continuing to to trust them and that and that sense, because, again, the reason why I bring up a third party logistics companies is that marketers want to sell and they want to put all of their creative energy into solving problems for customers and not having to solve problems for themselves on the back end. Now, there are people who love back end. And I myself, I'm like a hybrid. Like I'm I can lean both front and back end. So I do enjoy both sides of it. But I've talked to some people who like they love being in accounting or they love, I guess, of marketing is taking the front end. So I'm blanking on like maybe another back, an issue that people love. But point being is that if you don't love, you're not passionate about it, it is going to take more energy to handle that. So just find somebody that you can trust and be advised, very trustworthy and get into research on doing what it takes to convert customers.
Aaron [00:31:37] Yeah, I was going to say that the website I had to pull up here, you guys have quite a few downloads and people who are using the site each month. So it's not like you guys are going to go away tomorrow. So it's going to be there, which is also huge kudos. I think one thing that's just the industry as a whole and you can take this with a grain of salt, but and I think this is conversation Chris and I have had as well, which is that there's so many people on YouTube and so many people out there that are kind of the the term drop shipping is just not as favorable to some people because there's people, there's people, there's bad apples with them. Right. So how do you guys address drop shipping in a positive light and say, hey, look, there's bad apples out there, but there's a lot of good for drop shipping and and that consumers can get a behind as well. Because, like, sometimes if you tell people, hey, I'm a dropship, they're like, oh, so, you know, like the quality can't be good or that the product isn't going to be good or whatever. So how do you guys kind of combat that, that, you know, maybe that's just our perception or my perception of the industry from what I've seen on YouTube and stuff. But how do you guys kind of come back that that conversation?
Joseph [00:32:45] It's definitely a big issue, so you're not, you know, an outlier to bring it up at all. Some of this has to do with community and social proof. If you go through our landing page, you will see that there are a number of prominent figures in the e-commerce space. One of them that comes to my mind is a Sittar who was just recently he was interviewed, I think, on NBC. So a lot of this just has to do with each individual member of the e-commerce community to act as a pillar of trust. And so that while I'm there to say I'm I I'm into e-commerce and I found one of the YouTube was first and they recommended debutify or I just wanted to beautify. And then I said, oh, I recognize that guy. And the more open they are, the more trust that they facilitated to the community at large. So it is it is a community effort. Everybody has to pull their weight to to make it more trustworthy. And I think in any industry. Right, they're going to be bad apples. I think in a weird way, having people who try to get away with something they shouldn't get away with, this is going to sound very weird. But it might actually legitimize the business because if people wouldn't take advantage unless there was some way to take advantage of. So you do have good actors, but then we do have bad actors and those bad actors, we can spend all day trying to engage them directly. But it's a waste of energy. But we do use them as a means to understand how to better communicate with customers so that they are pushed even further into the shadows.
Aaron [00:34:14] Yeah, well, that's a I mean, that's a great insight, I think that's helpful for me and also people who listen to the podcast and then also for Christian ideas to have better conversations, to educate people as you know, how to how to. What is this? And then what is drop shipping and then how. How can we best explain, because I think as long as you know, for for both of us or all three of us, really, we want e to grow because e commerce is just it's not only how we build our livelihood, but it also helps more people. And what you brought back earlier, which is that freedom. So e commerce gives opportunity to freedom. And if people aren't willing to try something because they have a negative connotation, then they kind of suppress their freedom at that point. So hopefully those who are listening realize that, you know, there are the good and the bad apples out there. It's just what kind of talking in twenty, twenty one right now. And it's still it's crazy. Like if you looked at e commerce on like a bar graph or something, it's so early on. Right. If you're going to compare it to even the retail space, it's still not bigger than retail, like a physical retail. It's still not bigger than so many things that it has the most potential, but it's still kind of in an infancy stage. And I think that's kind of what is confusing to some people. Just my thoughts, I guess.
Joseph [00:35:29] I would think I would say is, generationally speaking, I myself, I'm I'm thirty one, and so I still have time to try to adapt to new technologies before too much of my brain crystallizes. But I will say that over time, certain generations are going to adapt to things much more easily. And so a lot of the work here is to legitimately minimize the industries for up and coming generations, like Amazon, for instance, that they're massive. And I think pretty much every generation recognizes Amazon and utilizes them. So that part of the foundation has been set and I would love to see. But what point will Amazon end up? I don't think they'll I don't see them falling. But you never know. Right. This we've seen the other Giants fall in the past, so we'll see. But I'm pretty sure they're going to stick around.
Christian [00:36:23] Yeah, you're missing different generations. I would say this generation is the one upcoming indigency are obviously tiktok fanatics. Right. What are your thoughts on tech talk? What is the future of ICOM look like in combination with with tech talk show?
Joseph [00:36:43] So I have things to say about tiktok and I have some not so good things to say about tiktok. The not so good is that it? It is highly addictive. People can get a dopamine hit a far quicker than they can get it on Facebook or even scrolling through YouTube. And so I do worry about how it's going to affect people's ability to restrain themselves. So so there's that. But the positive that I'll say about ticktock is that not only is it an entertainment platform, it has transformed into a community all of its own around commerce. One of the guests that I spoke to, his name is Austin Rapine. And he a lot of his ability to communicate with people was via Tiktok and was interesting, too. And I talked to him about this, too, is that funneling those people from Tiktok into YouTube has actually been a challenge because they're conditioned to receive their content and those in that bite sized manner. But there are there is a there are stories about it about how the the whole e-commerce mini industry has firmed up around tiktok. So all of these platforms can be adapted to for a business platform, can be adapted for leisure in the way like Azuma started as a business platform. My memory serves and now lots of people are using Zune literally a as a leisure platform can be adapted to and it has been adapted to a business conferencing platform.
Aaron [00:38:18] Yeah, that's actually ironic because I was just before this coming in here talking to some of our clients, telling them, hey, look, you've done a couple of tiktoks, make one specific for this and we're going to just test out five hundred dollars here and let's start advertising on Tiktok because the cost is just so much lower. But the other, an e-commerce business, it just makes sense to get in front of people and let's test. It's still so early. So I think that's definitely something to be said for that. It was absolutely a leisure platform. And I think last year with the start of the pandemic, it just kind of forced people to be creative and do fun things and then just exploded Tiktok because it was perfect for that. Go ahead. Did you ever thought on that?
Joseph [00:39:00] Yeah, yeah, I was just going to say it just from my own experience with Tiktok. I downloaded it and I was and I was using it for about two days and I realized, OK, this is these kids, these kids to. But what I really appreciate about the creative side is when you put limitations on people, it encourages them to rethink how they're going to tell a story. Do you guys recall Vine by any chance? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So rest in peace vine, but Vine was the progenitor for what Tiktok is now. And this is hilarious, like a series of will SASO vines where anytime somebody brought up the word lemon all of a sudden like a lemon would pop out of his mouth and he would shoot it out like there's a vine. Or I'd look at this still funny to this day where he's like, where do we already find his house? And then he's got an iPad with Hulk Hogan on it. So turn left on Citris Avenue, brother, citrus industry. But I think what just happened and why was that seven seconds. So creatively, there is so much potential there that that I that I find encouraging. It makes you wonder how people are going to tell stories when they got three seconds for whatever is going to like. The nanosecond app at some point is coming along. How they were going to do this in three seconds.
Aaron [00:40:15] Yeah, I think you're onto something there, too, right. Because, you know, we wanted to go the other direction, like stories used to be like fifteen seconds and 30 minute. And now it's like, wait, what happens if we get less time instead of more? So now it's only three seconds to your point. Like, how can you tell a story one second, two seconds every second you may be onto something that that's the that's not available yet.
Joseph [00:40:35] It is that interesting. You see, though, how with a lot of these platforms, they do end up easing their restrictions rather than clamping down on them. Twitter doubled their character size Facebook. I used to I signed up for Facebook because I thought it was like a living yearbook or living a photo album or something like that. And now Facebook is town square. It's basically everything. So I can't think of any platforms where they increased restrictions. So. So there's something interesting about that. I don't know. You guys think of any platforms where they actually made things more restrictive over time.
Aaron [00:41:13] No, and what's interesting is that there's a bunch of names out there where it's like everybody shooting everybody, you're like pointing at everybody because it's like, no, I, I did this first. No, tiktok. You didn't do this for Facebook. Didn't know Instagram did this first. Like, so they're all just copying each other. Right. So it's like who can be the big enough player to kind of warrant the amount of time that we're going to have here? You know, the big argument right now is clubhouse, right? So how can where is that? Where is there a space for clubhouse here? Because it's like Facebook's at the party. Instagram's at the party. Tiktok. Now, LinkedIn is trying to do some stuff for business. Twitter's kind of like the you know, the person that was left out there. They talk sometimes, but then now there's this clubhouse guy trying to join the party. So it's as who's going to be the the main players here, but they're all just copying each other. Right. So, yeah, clubhouse came out with the audio feature and then, boom, Twitter like, all right, we're going to come out with this, the same thing as well.
Joseph [00:42:07] We'll do things to that. No. One, I think LinkedIn really needs to do a dating service. I'm not kidding. So many professionally invited people, I think would actually connect with somebody also professionally minded on there. I think LinkedIn dating is is a winner. And number two, I remember you were telling me about clubhouse and you were the one that recommended I get on there and I couldn't. I tried. And at the time, maybe it's changed now. But at the time it was only for Apple or for iOS users. And being on being a peasant that I am on my my Android, they wouldn't let me in.
Aaron [00:42:39] So you didn't tell me. You didn't tell us that. So we had to cancel the interview and just kind of everything. The Android is coming out soon, though, so it should be it should be coming out actually within the next, I would say, a couple of weeks. They announced that, I think in the beginning of January. Beginning of February maybe. So soon you will be able to hear what we're talking about literally. I don't want to transition here to a couple of rapid fire questions, more so kind of some fun and then we'll kind of wrap up here. But so. Yeah, these unrelated, completely unrelated to debutify or ecommerce, or maybe they are, I don't know. So right now there's a lot of streaming services and we got Paramount plus now at this point, I was just looking at that last night. What's what's your what show are you currently watching right now or what are you guys bingeing through anything? We used to say Netflix, but I think that's now relevant, right, because we all have everything. So what are you currently bingeing?
Joseph [00:43:40] I have a month's subscription to Disney plus because one division intrigued me, so I so I binge that and then I'm going to try to get as much of Phalcon and Winter Soldier as I can before my month expires. So far it's been pretty good. Oh, I see what they're doing. They're just going to like IV drip the marble content so that just as one series ends, I might glom onto another. So to answer your question, that's what I'm doing. But, you know, I myself, one of my one of my favorite things to do is I don't know if it's like an act of protest, but sometimes I will, like, watch YouTube on my TV as opposed to watch TV, on my TV. And there and there's one YouTube issue I personally think is like one of the most compelling storytellers across any platform. He's called the Emperor Lemon. It's short for Emperor Lemon, EMP L-E-M-O-N, and he does a number of the is a series called Never Ever, where he talks about either like a show or a person or a moment in history that under no circumstances could ever be repeated. So I don't know if you guys are big Simpsons fans, but his most recent episode was about how there will never, ever be another episode like Homer's Enemy, which is like the pivotal episode of Simpsons with Homer clashing heads with Frank Grimes. I love that series and I know that doesn't sound like a streaming service thing, but, you know, that kind of content is in competition with Disney. And I just wanted to get that content a shout out because some of those episodes I watched like three or four times because the storytelling is so compelling.
Aaron [00:45:17] Yeah, I think you're on to something there in general. Right. Which is that the more that we find community or niches like with what we like, so like you and Christian could definitely watch one division and stuff like like there's that community of people there. Right. So they go to Disney. Plus then there's another group of people who are community like they just love maybe their old TV shows. So they found them on Netflix and they're going to watch just that. So it's everybody now has the choice. It's not just like cable. Where we had this was what was available to us. So there may be a YouTube series, which I'm actually a huge fan of, the Capecchi, which is a YouTube series turned Netflix show.
Joseph [00:45:52] And that's a lot of show.
Aaron [00:45:54] It's now it's literally they're about to shoot the next season because it's been so popular. So I think you're on to something there as far as the community side in and more so the knitting down of like, hey, this is what interests me and this is the platform that I'm going to spend my time on. And, you know, there's enough for everybody at that point. We don't have to watch cable where there's three hundred channels. It's just like this is what I like.
Christian [00:46:18] Yeah. I mean, I would argue that YouTube also has, like you said, like great storytellers who know how to tell a story while still doing very creative things. So I myself, I'm, you know, spending hours on on YouTube, just watching really awesome creators do really cool stuff. Quick question. Have you ever Googled your name?
Joseph [00:46:42] Yeah, yeah, and I wouldn't say like once a week, but I do it quite a bit. In fact, why don't I do this for you guys right now? I'm so being beaten up by the realtor and Yvonne, I do know I know that Joseph Vianney personally, who is a he's a he's a poet, so he's eclipsed me. So the real estate guy. Real estate guy, I think. And the Joseph Ayane profiles. OK, I'm the first on the on the list, but I think that's just because I started it and I'm already pretty logged in. OK, I think as a story, the Italian just Italian things where I wanted to try winning this letter that we have here called the Princess Margaret Home Hospital, heart attack lottery or something like that. And I knew that, OK, this is a rabbit hole. So my strategy is I'm going to try to win the cash calendar and the money I win from that I would use for to reenter the cash calendar to try to build up capital and then enter one of the bigger lotteries and secure a condo. OK, so I lost. But what was cool was I was checking my name on the on the daily winnings because it was 30 days worth of winnings and I got to see every variation of Ironi possible. There was Richard Gere, Giannini, there was a any Charlie and like oh so close yet so far.
Christian [00:48:10] Interesting. So I think it's because we're in Dallas, but there was some sort of Dallas mobster who had the exact same name that you have. And for some reason when I Googled your entire name, the first two results were about that particular mobster. So that was kind of interesting. I thought that there was
Joseph [00:48:25] like proximity based. Right, because like wine is like just north of Torana. So so he would he would pop up. I recently got Xpress VPN, so I don't I have to I have to pick accounts. I have my Joseph Vianney account, which is like my leasure one, that I have proceph, which is what I do here. And I don't think I have VPN on proceph, which is an anomaly in of itself. But I bet you if I logged on to like a Singapore VPN, I probably get like the true organic results because you in Singapore are searching for Shozo Vianney.
Aaron [00:48:57] Right, right. Yeah. We're going to have to read up. You should go read up on your mob yourself, unless that is you. I don't know what area that
Christian [00:49:03] could be family. I don't know that family,
Joseph [00:49:05] but that part's a given. Well, I was going to
Aaron [00:49:07] say, well, you said that by contract you couldn't talk bad about your less quote unquote sales.
Joseph [00:49:12] So go and go to these stores. So you notice you can't sell these watches, these watches for you.
Aaron [00:49:19] Yeah, exactly. This all is aligning right now. OK, last real quick question for you. So what's the last purchase of one hundred dollars or less that has most positively impacted your life?
Joseph [00:49:37] My, my, my Legend of Zelda Tumblr, nice uses bad by nearly every day,
Christian [00:49:45] keeps things like this. We can't seem to do it. I like those quick answers. It's like. I think it's like, yes, this is it. This is a
Joseph [00:49:53] shout out to English breakfast. And by that I mean the tea. Oh my goodness. Is this thing good? Like, I was like, I'm trying to find coffee substitutes. And so that was by my metric or my comparison. But my God, English breakfast with milk and honey is just delicious. I mean, I have to drink or give it a shot. Please. Please.
Aaron [00:50:13] Are you a cold beer drinker?
Joseph [00:50:17] Sure, yeah, I'm happy, warm, cold, both, both good.
Aaron [00:50:23] I was going to say we had a guy on our podcast a couple of weeks ago. It's over in New York. It's called Bujji Coffee was going to send you over his check out. It's a Christian, tried it, not even a coffee drinker, and said it was pretty good. Yeah. So definitely check him out. All right, we've definitely got a lot of good stuff here, so I'm going to close this out. But thank you so much, Joseph. Really appreciate your time and knowledge. And we're going to link up everything here. But just so everybody knows, what's the best way for them to connect with you and to be great.
Joseph [00:50:57] So you can if you if you're interested in the podcast at all, you can email podcast@debutify.com and I'll be checking that and I'll get back in touch with you. Our website is debutify.com. That is D E B Don't screw this up, Joseph U T I F Y dot com dibutify youTube is a great resource too. We have we put out video content every week teaching wedding products, research strategies, really anything you need to not only get started but really get the ball rolling.
Aaron [00:51:30] Awesome. All right. Yeah, we'll grab those links and put that into the show notes as well. And we'll release this not only on the podcast, but video online through Facebook and Instagram as well. So thank you so much for jumping on and we really appreciate your time.
Joseph [00:51:44] So thanks for having me. It's been fun.
Aaron [00:51:46] Absolutely.
Aaron [00:51:47] Hey, guys, thanks so much for listening to another episode of The Marketing Natives. Hope you enjoyed this one with Joseph. He gave a lot of really good information about to debutify, but more so the ecommerce industry. If you found value in this episode, please make sure to share it with a friend. And if you are feeling super advantageous, screenshot this shared on Instagram stories and Tag us, and we will give you a shout out as well on the podcast and through Instagram. Let us know that you're listening and that you're out there. We really appreciate that. If you've been listening for a while, please make sure to leave us an honest rating and review on Apple podcast that helps us reach more people. And it also lets us know how we should continue to update the content. So do you like the content we're producing right now? Do you want different content? What is it that's going to be helpful for you? And if this is your first time and this is your first episode and you were like, wow, that was great. I hope there's more interviews. I hope there's more content like that. Make sure you hit the subscribe button no matter where you're at and listening to this because we put out episodes every single Monday. All right. So that's all we have for this week. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.
Narrator [00:52:54] The marketing native's podcast is a production of BitBranding.
